| | 21 | 5/9/2010 11:53 AM | Ezinma Okonkwo wishes that Ezinma would have been a boy becasue he probably doesn't know how to bond well with women besides his wife. Do you think that Okonkwo wishes Ezinma was a boy so they could have a father son bonding and understand each other or do you think it is because Okonkwo would enjoy seeing masculinty carry on in his family? |
| | 0 | 5/3/2010 5:42 PM | Locusts + Missionaries They are similar, dogs and dogettes. Locusts come and offer free, easy food, which seems cool at first, but don'tenforce work ethic like yams do. So it makes everyone lazy, kind of like how the white man make everyone lazy with their charity. yeah. |
| | 9 | 5/2/2010 2:53 PM | The African Writer and the English Language So this is the essay, by Achebe, that goes with the first seven chapters of the book.
I think Achebe's point is interesting, but I also recognize that I can only understand what he's talking about to a point because I have not had an "African experience" or fully comprehend what effect that experience would have on language.
This essay presents a whole new spin on Achebe's use of language. He is trying to get across the character of his country, of his people. I'm not so sure anymore that it's just in opposition to Conrad.
Thoughts? |
| | 10 | 5/2/2010 2:50 PM | Women = Land? We discussed in class how the child-rearing role of women in Umuofia (a soil to be seeded) is like the impregnation of a field with yam seeds. Outside of this physical paralell, I am struggling to understand how the two are connected. Thoughts? |
| | 33 | 5/2/2010 2:45 PM | The back cover Ok, so I saw that on the back cover that Things Fall Apart is described as a simple story which begs the question, "Did the writer's of this even think about the book?" |
| | 17 | 4/18/2010 4:50 PM | YAMS In class, third hour at least, we talked about how yams were directly realted to the man. The more Yams he had, the more masculine he was, and this even contributed to the number of wives he had based on the number of people he could support. So the one scene I am interested in is the scene where Okonkwo, Nwoye, and Ikemefunia are cutting up the yams before they plant. Okonkwo yelled at Nwoye for cutting up this one yam too small and he siad or something similar to "we arent cooking these yams" so then i realized maybe this ritual of cutting up yams to proper size is maybe a transition into manhood fo alot of the boys. Previously they had to cut the yams for dinner( a feminine task) and now the whole planting season is based on the cuts they make. any thoughts about yams and the scene....... |
| | 0 | 4/12/2010 9:09 PM | TORTOISE STORY Hey yall. I'm set on TFA for my Q3 tomorrow. I re-read the Ezinma getting carried off part and the end and think I have a few different things fresh to talk about. One thing i been thinkin about is the TORTOISE STORY. I'm pretty sure it's important since it's so drawn out. My guess is it's supposed to parallell how the white men smooth talk and defy the Umuofians. And I guess the whites kind of rely on the Ibo for food and trade (at least a little bit). And maybe the part where they take the feathers away is them taking their rescources and support away. The whole bit about the "cloud people" confuses me, though. I think they're supposed to be like gods, so why does the tortise need to deceive the birds to get to them? Maybe the god thing is too big a stretch. Maybe the fact that the cloud people allow the tortoise to eat all the food just further illustrates the gaps in their culture. OH! Actually, the way that the Tortoise gets what he wants is by tricking both groups into misunderstanding eachother's customs. Did white men ever turn tribes against eachother back in the day? Im pretty sur they did. |
| | 19 | 4/11/2010 10:16 PM | feminist paper im using leeks paper. She uses feminism to evaluate things fall apart. Her main thesis seems to be that reading as a woman is hard, because they have been trained to read like men. Then she talks about other analysis' and how they purposfully neglect to mention the women of the novel, even though they have a major role. I want to qualify her arguement, because i believe the women play a major role, but i will not go as far as to say we as men cannot mention them because of some sort of manly gene that makes women and their actions invisible to us. |
| | 13 | 4/11/2010 10:08 PM | Irony It's kind interesting that the entire book is just one big ironic object. The commissioner states that Okonkwo's story might make an interesting paragraph, yet there are 200 pages about the story of Okonkwo. It really seems that the actual physical book is ironic. |
| | 17 | 4/11/2010 10:04 PM | Just like his father... Okay so in the end Okonkwo has a family that is falling apart, his tribe has lost respect for him, he doesn't have the life he dreamed of and strived so hard to achieve. So in the end, he has the same life as his father... its ironic to me how all his life he tried to be unlike his father and in the end, he is seen as evil just like his father was seen when he got sick.... :/ |
| | 3 | 3/31/2010 12:05 AM | Missionaries Essay Help This is sort of what I have... It's just kind of a jumbled mass of ideas with little connection, I just wanted to spew some ideas out there and hope someone could help me out. So without further ado:
Kenneth Hermansson believes the tragedy of Achebe's Things Fall Apart lies with Okonkwo's failure to adapt to the inevitable changes which must take place in society. A closer analysis of Achebe's work reveals a recognition of this fact, but with a strong criticism of the missionary work which so heavily influenced the change. Achebe's tragedy is Okonkwo's suicide, forced upon him by the new invading culture.
While Achebe is highly critical of the missionary efforts in Africa, he is no fool. He recognizes as Hermansson does that societies “do not remain unchangeable forever”. Even before the missionaries arrived, Okonkwo sensed the changing winds. Discussing th e nearby villages, he recognizes the change some villages have already begun to experience. A title which formerly meant great prestige is now “so low that every beggar takes it” and he “does not lose it even” if he commits a crime. That which would have brought great honor now means nothing, and a denigration in the traditions of the Ibo people is evident. By acknowledging this fact, Achebe demonstrates his understanding that societies must, in some ways, change. This, however, does not change his perception of change forced by the missionaries.
Achebe immediately identifies the missionary movement as the evil force in the novel. At no point is this more evident than at the novel's climax. Seeing Okonkwo's dead body, the unnamed Commissioner reflects on the book he is writing entitled “The Pacification of the Primitive Tribes of the Lower Niger” (Achebe 209). This book, and its author, are reflective of Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness's report for the “International Society for the Suppression of Savage Customs” written by Kurtz, a district commissioner (Conrad 48). Achebe is a noted critic of Conrad, having written a book entitled An Image of Africa: Racism in Conrad's Heart of Darkness, thus any allusion to a character from Heart of Darkness, especially one as volatile and cruel as Kurtz, should be viewed as an unfavorable comparison. The Commissioner and the missionaries he represents are thereby characterized as racist and cruel. If further proof was needed of the missionaries' hostility to the Ibo culture, one need only note when the missionaries, speaking of the Ibo's religion, “Your gods are not alive and cannot do any harm” (Achebe 105~). If this was said to a Christian by an invading race, they would be quite offended indeed. Furthermore, Achebe's narrator speaks of another missionary, who “saw things in black and white. And black was evil” (Achebe 132). It is hard to conceive that having such strong opinions against the missionaries, Achebe would be welcoming the change they brought to the Ibo people, as Hermansson would seem to suggest.
Many of Hermansson's points are based on a misreading of a significant quote from the novel. He suggests that Okonkwo “might have become a chief of his people” had he faced the missionaries changes with an open mind. Quoting that Okonkwo “was a man whose chi said nay despite his own affirmation” out of context may seem to point to that conclusion, but doing so fails to recognize the entire rest of the novel. Okonkwo's people were no more on board with the changes the missionaries proposed than he was. While some of the village did convert and follow the missionaries, many others fought against the change and actively resisted the missionaries. Okonkwo led his people in this charge, and in that, he was more of a leader than some of the chiefs who had acquiesced to the missionaries.
Achebe spends a great deal of time describing the religion of the Ibo people, and in doing so make the practices seem very real. One crucial element that Hermansson missed is the effect these beliefs had on the protagonist. At the height of his success, Okonkwo is forced to leave his village after he accidentally killed a young boy, thereby committing a “female crime”, known as such “because it had been inadvertent”. With as interventionist as Achebe suggests the Ibo gods are, it is only a small jump to reach the conclusion that this “inadvertent” crime is actually an act of the gods. In the time Okonkwo is living in his mother-land, he sticks more firmly to his religious beliefs than he ever had before, thus the gods affirm Okonkwo's desire to remain true to tradition.
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| | 1 | 3/28/2010 5:06 PM | Critic essay and conclusion So... in clas we discussed how we may use the conclusion as another arguement of our own. I am doing the christian missionary essay and i am defending achebe's work so i was thinking for my conclusion i may make an arguement of why missonary work need to stop.... but thinking about it missionary work is different now than it used to be and maybe i should bring this up in my essay but i dont know how to do it. |
| | 6 | 3/28/2010 11:08 AM | true christian missionaries Ummmm so my literary critic is about the christian missionaries in TFA... and they made a good point of how missionaries of this novel may not have stuck to the true calling of Chirst. I know there is a passage in the Bible that talks about how Jesus, after his ressurection and before he goes back to heaven tells his disciples to go do missionary work and if any town does not acceot you move on to another town.... So right now i think I'm going to defend my critic with this being one of my main points.. if i can't find more thingd to defend I may have to just qualify....any thoughts??? |
| | 1 | 3/28/2010 12:07 AM | literary critic essay thesis; help pleasee!! Okay, so i'm writing about Mezu's feminist interpretation of TFA, and i want to assert her arguments (i agree with what she's saying). so far, this is my thesis:
Mezu argues that Okonkwo is representative of the patriarchal mindset of the Igbo people, and that the complete absence of a female principle in the village's interactions with the missionaries led to their downfall in TFA.
The problem is, i feel like i'm simply restating her arguments. I'm not sure how to work in that i'm agreeing with her, and that i'm going to back up her argument. Or am i overthinking it; is it not necessary? help!! |
| | 22 | 3/27/2010 2:36 PM | the suicide Was Achebe trying to make Okonwko's suicide a tragic death, or was it something meant to be looked down upon? Does his suicide serve as redemption or continue the trend of him making poor decisions and acting like a jerk? thoughts? |
| | 0 | 3/20/2010 10:13 AM | Roze Mezu So I am doing my lit crit essay on Rose Mezu's exploration into the role of women in TFA, and I definitely have a lot to say, my essay may exceed the 4-5 page length. I am qualifying the peice in that Mezu has some good points in her theme, but her approach seems poor and is riddled with useless information or exaggerations on the quotes. She almost seems like a second wave feminist. I'm leaving things short to nurture a discussion, so what are you guys doing with this essay for yours and what do you find interesting about it? |
| | 0 | 3/14/2010 12:46 PM | Need Help Finding Quotes So.... I'm looking for a couple of quotes to help with my essay, and I have no idea where to find them. I was hoping someone may have already found them or might be willing to help me look.
One of them is between Okonkwo and one of the other higher ups in the tribe where he talks about how in one of the other villages every man has a particular rank. If I could just be directed to a page number that would be very helpful.
I can't think of the others I needed at the moment, but if anyone else needs quotes, post requests and answers here! |
| | 14 | 3/9/2010 5:46 PM | If Okonkwo was not in exile... I happened to think of this many times troughout the part in the novel when the Europeans came to visit. If Okonkwo was not in exile when the Europeans came do you think he would have fought them off or eventually come to terms and join their culture? I know Okonkwo talked about if he was back at his old village he would fight the Europeans off and he doesn't understand why his village doesn't do that. |
| | 8 | 3/9/2010 5:33 PM | OPINIONS R LIKE YA MAMA//////////////////////MISSIONARYS Yo, I'm doing the Missionary essay about TFA for my lit. crit. essay. I've read it a couple of times and found that a lot of the guys arguments seem to be based a bit on his own opinion. Like, just because he thinks that sacrificing babies is bad, then that also means that Achebe thinks this, and is therefore presenting the missionaries in a positive light by having them save the twins. Personally, I'd argue it's a bit more complicated, and that this guys simplified view stems from his western thinking. IDK. Am I supposed to say he's wrong since he assumes this? :/ |
| | 9 | 3/7/2010 8:33 AM | Kurtz in Umuofia?!? The commissioner at the end of the book is simply known as the commissioner. Would if the commissioner is supposed to be Kurtz? It wouldn't be completely out of place would it? I mean if this is in response to HoD that would make a whole lot of sense. The commissioner, from a certain point of view, helped to cause Okonkwo's suicide. He also ignored most african anything. Could that not be part of "The horror, the horror" ? |
| | 0 | 3/6/2010 9:18 AM | Kenneth Hermanson - My Essay Outlining [Please Excuse Rough Formating] 1. Believes it is impossible to preserve cultures
1a.What does Achebe say about this?
1ai.Certainly treats the missionaries as hostiles
1aii.Alludes to Kurtz when referring to missionaries
1aii1.Achebe is an outspoken critic of Conrad
1aii2.Comparison would suggest missionaries are corrupt, possibly insane
2.Believes that the tragedy of the novel is with Okonkwo
2a.Believes he can't face the changes
2b.New ideas don't necessarily “transform” people, many of the tribe are very outspoken against it
2bi. The only people who accept the changes are the weak/lazy/etc.
2bii1.The novel suggests that these people are lesser and not worthy
2bii2.Undesirable, therefore associated the new changes/religion as undesireable
3.Misquoted section
3a.Okonkwo wanted to be chief, but not of a new tribe, the old one.
3b.His casting out of the tribe was not because he couldn't face changes, it was because of an accident
3bi. Or because of the gods' choice that he should be cast out
3bii. Okonkwo stayed closer to his faith when he was cast out, so his banishment was the gods' way of affirming his belief in tradition
4.Agree that missionaries did bad stuff
4a.“Should he not have said it another way?” (see the essay for this to make sense) yes.
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| | 37 | 3/5/2010 6:55 PM | If okonkwo was nice... If okonkwo was nice, would he have been able to get where he is in the beginning of the novel? He is violent and short tempered, but also has an indomitable will, I think the message achebe is trying to send here is that these traits are linked. Okonkwo is successful because he has so much hatred for what his father was, he is successful out of the fear of failure, not the joy of success.
So back to my original question, would okonkwo be sucessful as he is now if he was just an all around nice guy? |
| | 9 | 2/28/2010 11:52 AM | Ekwefi Although women in this book are not considered strong Ekwefi demonstrates the opposite of that. When her only daughter Ezinma is being taken away by Chielo, Ekwefi becomes worried and offers love and companionship to her only daughter and treats her as more as a prize. Because Ekwefi disobeys the Gods and goes against Chileo's request to stay away from them while she takes Enzima into the caves, Ekwefi struggles to chase after them for the love of her child showing her strength. |
| | 13 | 2/28/2010 11:15 AM | Spirtual message We talked this morning in first hour about how everything in the physical world is a reflection of the spirtual world. Mainly dealing with when Okonkwo's gun exploded. What if the message was not meant for okonkwo? The spiritual message could have been that that kid needed to die. Why is it said that Okonkwo was the sinner and needed to be dealt with? |
| | 3 | 2/26/2010 9:56 PM | Old testament vs New testament Something big happens in chapter 21. The chapter shows of conversation between Mr. Brown and an Ibo man, Akunna, who has sent his son to go study under the church, but himself is still loyal to his fathers' religion. Akunna is basically trying to explain to Mr. Brown that his religion and christianity are probably just the same thing but with different names. Eventually, at the bottom of pg 180, they get to a point where Brown says "You said one interesting thing, you are afraid of Chukwu. In my religion Chukwu is a loving Father and need not be feared by those who do His will." and Akunna responds "But we must fear Him when we are not doing His will. And who is to tell His will? It is too great to be known." I could be wrong, but i think this is a big argument between whether god is personal and loving like Christ or angry and unknowable like YHWH. Akkuna, and arguably his people as a whole, seems to have the doubt that Job had and the arguably that which abraham had right before stabbin'. And even if this isn't a religious thing, it's begs some really interstin' questions. Do you know that what you're doing is right? Is your relationship with god really so close that you think youre doing his will? I guess you'd have to think so to be a missionary. |
| | 11 | 2/26/2010 9:32 AM | Kola Nuts So, the kola nut is considered a sacred item that is ceremonially broken during gatherings and visits in the novel. Well guess what? The kola nut is a flavoring ingredient and the main source of caffeine in Coca Cola! I was blown away by this, as it seems to show how our Western society can commercialize an item that is so important to another culture. Thoughts? |
| | 16 | 2/25/2010 9:46 AM | *Possible spoiler* Love Irony So theres been a thread about how Achebe has been praising Okonkwo as his protagonist and a great man. His fate was quite contradicting to this belief. He was now seen as an evil spirit. He committed a terrible act that would not be excused. Although his tribesmen still thought of him as a great man while alive, he is now evil for taking his own life. I think Achebe is showing Okonkwo's true colors in the ending, and that Achebe didn't truly praise him. |
| | 12 | 2/21/2010 1:36 PM | Why Yams?? I think we have all come to the conclusion that "yams make the man" in Umuofia, but I wonder why yams specifically are the chosen crop. Is it because they are considered the most valuable, or do they hold a spiritual place in the village? Perhaps they are the crop that grow the best in the African climate. What about other crops, like potatos or squash or something?
And if yams are labeled "masculine," does every other crop they produce have a gender label as well?
For anyone who can get through my ramblings, any thoughts? |
| | 3 | 2/21/2010 12:45 PM | *Spoiler* The ending *As this is going to be in the rightmost column, those who do not wish to read about the ending should stop reading right about now* By the ending, I am referring to the last chapter (25). I am trying to think about Achebe's intents for making the ending intentionally disappointing and somewhat angering. I am seeing this as the biggest response to Heart of Darkness out of any part of this novel. The District commissioner seems to be reflective of the lack of detail or concern shown in Heart of Darkness (Both to natives and whites alike) and offers disappointment in that all we get is a sort of indifference to the ending after the Commissioner becomes central and the details of Okonkwo and his burial are overlooked completely, unfit to the rest of the story. How do you view this disruptive ending? |
| | 20 | 2/21/2010 12:20 PM | Was the book a good defense? Achebe wrote this book in defense for the African people to Heart Of Darkness. In the end, Okonkwo ends up killing himself. Although this seems savage and undignified, can the book still be considered a defense? In Heart of Darkness, the Africans are depicted as hollering and jumping up and down on the shoreline but in Things Fall Apart, Achebe builds up characters and shows that they are real people. |
| | 4 | 2/21/2010 12:07 PM | Culture Clash The arrival of the white man and his culture bring upon the death og the Tho culture for several reasons. THe white man does not honor the tribe's customs and strive to convince tribesman's that the white man's way at re better. Why does some of the tribe follow the white man, utimalitey giving them power, and having the tribe become split? There is an even more important theme here which is makes brother against brother and father against son within the tribe. And in the end, death eventually ensues to the weaker of the clashing cultures. Thoughts? |
| | 18 | 2/21/2010 11:37 AM | Why Okonkwo as protagonist? We've been discussing in class (albeit shallowly) why Achebe would choose Okonkwo as his protagonist of the novel. In class we talked about how Achebe did this because with a nice, happy go lucky main character the story would have been boring. But I think there is another motive here. When the white missionaries come in, Okonkwo changes from being unjustly angry and bad tempered to a wise man of action. Is Achebe trying to show that Okonkwo's is a better presonality to have in times of war? |
| | 11 | 2/21/2010 11:35 AM | Death of Okonkwo So after Okonkwo was found hanging from a tree, the people of Umoufia asked the missionaries for help cutting him down. I understand about the whole thing about "It's a sin to kill yourself your body his evil" but what I do not get is why can't they take him down and give Okonkwo a normal burial. It's not like anything will happen to them. I mean it was proved to them by the Christians that nothing happened after they built over the "evil forest". |
| | 21 | 2/21/2010 11:29 AM | okonkwo's feminine crime what i dont get is why this crime is called a "feminine" crime when he shot a boy bluntly and coldly with no compassion. i thought the mark of a female was her affection and compassion. so how is killing this young boy a female crime? |
| | 7 | 2/21/2010 10:49 AM | Ezinma I, for one, was extremely disappointed as to the role Ezinma came to play near the end of the novel. I thought she would have been a much more pivotal character, since she got so much attention earlier in "Things Fall Apart." Instead, she merely became a beautiful woman who was going to be married once Okonkwo returned to Umuofia. Why did Achebe do this?! |
| | 6 | 2/21/2010 10:42 AM | Parent-Son Relationship One of the reoccurring themes in Things Fall Apart is between Okonkwo and his children, more or less Nywoe. There are also many between Okonkwo and his father. I find unique that neither of these relations ships are particularly healthy, why? The author does not judge in either regard, but he seems to show that Okonkwo's stubbornness and reticence to show affection is mostly at fault in both of the cases. Okonkwo has to show his masculinity!!!! WHY!! does anyone have a final answer? |
| | 5 | 2/21/2010 10:32 AM | Achebe's Accusations In the supplemental reading about racism in Heart of Darkness, Achebe bluntly says, "The point of my observations should be quite clear by now, namely that Joseph Conrad was a thoroughgoing racist." That's quite a lofty statement. Achebe, however, has quite the lofty amount of evidence to back up his claim. (Africa is the foil to Europe, lack of a African use of language, the humanity of Africa is eliminated, just to name a few.) So, do you agree with Achebe? Is his argument enough to convince us that this novel we just spent weeks studying is furthering a racist sentiment? |
| | 2 | 2/21/2010 9:57 AM | when christianity takes over... okay so i havent gotten to the end yet so i dont know if my question will be answered later on but here goes....
why is umuofia loosing so many clan members to this new religion? the africans have their own religion (or beliefs i guess) that has been around for centuries. and now white men have taken over, and everyone seems to blindly follow. i get how the white man (Mr Brown i think it was) showed everyone the contradictory, foolish beliefs were in fact false, and guided them to loose faith. but still, how can this brand new religion hold true itself? arent religions based off of stories that are thought to be true. take the bible. we are told that every piece of information in it is true, but how are we to know. we didnt live thousands of years ago. we just take someones word for it. isnt it the same way that the africans believed in their own "religion"? from stories that are told from centuries ago? |
| | 13 | 2/20/2010 10:27 PM | stories when ekwefi is telling ezinma the story of the tortoise and the dinner in the sky (chapter 11), i noticed that all of their (the africans) teachings are based off of these types of stories. its the only way they can teach their children the basis of their civilization and the morals they must keep. why do they tell stories for this purpose? whats the significance? |
| | 18 | 2/20/2010 5:14 PM | Why Achebe made Okonkwo violent/aggressive It's hard to sympathize with Okonkwo, which is a strange trait of a main character. Why did Achebe do this? Why would he create a character who is violent and ill-tempered? |
| | 10 | 2/20/2010 5:04 PM | Okonkwo as God (or at least a god) There are a few notations in my copy of the book, but they are few and far between, and most of them are just underlines with no explanation, so they're not all that helpful. There is one very early in the book that I did find interesting and I found that in someways it is reflected in the rest of the novel. Here is the passage in question:
"He breathed heavily, and it was said that, when he slept, his wives and children in their houses could hear him breathe. When he walked, his heels hardly touched the ground and he seemed to walk on springs..."
This section was underlined and next to it is written "Godly". At first I kind of shrugged this off. The guy snores and he runs a lot, so what? But breath so heavy it can be heard next door? Sounds pretty powerful. And walking so that one's heels (and by extension his feet?) barely touch the ground sounds a lot like this one guy who walked on water and stuff. A few other aspects of Okonkwo seem rather God-like, but more OT than NT. He's pretty open about being vengeful on the people who don't honor him (think Floods and raining fire and stuff). He seems quite strong and not afraid to prove it (again with the flood and knocking down towers and stuff).
Obviously there's some more... negative aspects of Okonkwo's personality that need to be dealt with, but some God parallels could be interesting, eh? |
| | 5 | 2/20/2010 3:43 PM | okonkwo's death i know a lot of people are really frustrated about the ending, and the way okonkwo dies, but i saw it as a fitting end for someone like okonkwo. Not because i hated him( i actually liked his character and i sympathized with him), but because i thought about how much more tragic it could have been if he lived. Think about it, his tribe would have fallen apart ( they were obviously not going to fight the missionaries because even when they were talking about war and okonkwo cut off the head of the white messenger who threatened him, no one from his tribe supported him), his family would have fallen apart (nwoye became a christian and Ezinma was possibly going to become the next priestess of agbala), he would have had to watch his people and his way of life weaken (the quality which he most despises) and eventually come to an end. Why would he want to live through that? he was once one of the most respected and strongest men in his village, and in outer villages too, now he couldn't even get his own family to stay together or his village to help him fight an unavoidable war. he no longer had any power, and that was the only thing he had been striving for all of his life. |
| | 7 | 2/20/2010 9:58 AM | Ezinma I still dont understand the purpose of the chapter where Ezinma is carried off through the villages to the caves. Does anyone have any ideas? oR DID ANY HOUR TALK ABOUT THIS CHAPTER? |
| | 5 | 2/18/2010 9:46 AM | Okonkwo's relationship with Ekwefi After he kills Ikemefuna, Okonkwo expresses much affection toward Ezinma, but why? He countiues to tell her that he wishes she where a boy and he has a mush deeper bond with her than any of his other children. Another facet to it is that despite all of the odds, Ezinma has survived for a great many more years than Ekwefi's other children. Does anyone else find it odd how much Okonkwo shows what he actually CARES in this chapter? |
| | 3 | 2/17/2010 9:42 AM | Parallels of situations involving Okonkwo's Mistakes Something I have been noticing with the recent reading is a sort of trend. It just seems like what Okonkwo does foreshadows how something will end up negatively for him in the future as the circumstances change. The first example I saw of this was the beatings. He later on goes and violates the week for peace, being unaware of the extent of his actions. What really made me think about this connection that occurs more than once is Okonkwo and his gun. In the first segment of reading we did, Okonkwo fires at his wife and purposely misses. However then unintentionally later on he kills a boy. It's making me wonder what could it mean from that, how Okonkwo is aware of what he does routinely (or without the slightest sense of care) however his ignorance puts him in such bad positions. Any thoughts on what Achebe is trying to say? |
| | 9 | 2/17/2010 9:30 AM | Okonkwo Why did Okonkwo get banished for 7 years for killing someone? Is that their type of law's? |
| | 10 | 2/17/2010 8:11 AM | Ikemefuna When Ikemefuna joins Okonkwo's family I feel that Ikemefuna heals the stress between Okonkwo and Nwoye, and Okonkwo deling with the stress of his father. Okonkwo can not see that Ikemefuna has come into this family to serve a purpose and to build a stronger relationship within the family. By failing to see this Okonkwo has to kill Ikemefuna which also kills the bond between Nwoye. |
| | 9 | 2/14/2010 12:46 PM | The Lesser of 2 Evils Between the white missionaries and Okonkwo, I'd choose Okonkwo. Is Achebe pitting two evils against each other (as in all the novels we've read this year), or is it something else? |
| | 8 | 2/14/2010 12:33 PM | death when a person dies in this society, everyone from the clan pay their respects by running through the villages pounding on drums, slaughtering every animal in sight, and cutting down trees. why do the clansmen dash about in a frenzy and go wild over a death in the clan? |
| | 5 | 2/14/2010 11:16 AM | Things falling apart in things fall apart We were discussing in class the other day if this society was going to fall apart even if the missionaries hadn't shown up and i've found a lot more evidence that it was not. For example the part where they find the pebble no one questions that he just picked up some random pebble or even had it with him the whole time after all he just digs deep enough so no one can really see him anymore. Another crucial scene is when they recognize okonkwo's feet dancing, but he is dressed as a god at the time and is supposed to be the god people even recognize that okonkwo isn't at his place with the other elders at the time but yet no one questions either of these incidences out loud so they clearly had enough belief. Does anyone agree? Or can someone find evidence that it was falling apart? |
| | 1 | 2/14/2010 2:06 AM | Family tree I think it is a key factor to know who is who in this novel. As i continure reading, the characters seem to increase more and more on me...I think we should keep a running list on here to keep characters in order. If anyone has a better idea about how to keep everything organized...plz feel free to comment :) |
| | 3 | 2/14/2010 12:14 AM | Okonkwo's Discussion In chapter 7, Okonkwo makes a huge discussion to follow the locusts and sacrifice Ikemefuna. The previous two chapter where light-hearted and playful, and this chapter starts the same way as Ikemefuna seems to be fully absorbed within the family. He even changes Nwoye for the better to make him more masculine like Okonkwo want.
Achebe uses the locusts to as a symbol that something will go wrong because they are not seen as good omens.
When Okonkwo make the discussion to kill Ikemefuna, he only finishes him off because he does not want to appear weak, which is ironic because in fact, that is a direct result of his weakness, a fragile sense of pride. It is more important for him to for others to see him held in a high position than anything else, and this foreshadows that Okonkwo will do ANYTHING to continue to keep his power.
After the death, Nywoe knows Okonkwo has killed Ikemefuna but this begs the question, if Okonkwo had not allowed for Ikemefuna to be killed, would things have turned out differently between him and his son? |
| | 8 | 2/13/2010 11:44 PM | Oknokwo and his society Okonkwo is a victim of his own society. He followed partially in the footsteps of his father, breaking laws and not obeying. but he did his own thing, and became sort of his own man, and built his own empire out of nothing. But overalll he did not have a chance since the beginning, his society was developed to a point where it didnt matter what he did, he was not going to change it. because his societys location and monetary and raw materials, there was no way for okonkwo to change his society into a english society. |
| | 18 | 2/12/2010 3:25 PM | masculinity vs. femininity Okonkwo's views on masculinity involve strength, power, and wealth. he shows no affection towards his wives or children, and evokes abuse, keeping his family in terror.
however, he doesnt believe his son is masculine enough and abuses because of it. Nwoye listens to the stories and spends time with the women in the house, and shows affection as a means of communicating his feelings towards others. but he believes he is a man.
but okonkwo's daughter Ezinma evokes masculine characteristics, and yet okonkwo doesnt discourge them. he even wishes ezinma was a boy.
why does okonkwo discourage Nwoye for his affection, but encourage Ezinma's more masculine evokation? |
| | 7 | 2/11/2010 7:57 PM | trouble in africa I am having some problems with this book in terms of analyzing it in depth beyond just plot level analysis. Maybe it's because the symbolism and all that good stuff is not as blatant as it was in Invisible Man, or Heart of Darkness. But regardless, I was hoping someone could shed some light on something i am missing here. |
| | 4 | 2/11/2010 7:46 PM | Okonkwo Life and Actions Okonkwo is so prideful in the entire novel, that it is his pride that brings his downfall in the end. He can't stand his father, Okoye, whom he despises for his laziness and the fact that he is a failure at life. Okonkwo is afraid to be anything like his father, of being seen as weak and useless, and that is what pushes his, that is his motivating factor is the way he goes about his life. Does anyone see any other reasons to add on why he act so manly? |
| | 11 | 2/8/2010 5:20 PM | Civilization in Africa I'm sorry that the first post is about a specific plot element, but my general/initial thoughts of this book are not post-worthy!
In being a response to Heart of Darnkess, Achebe's development of the political/formal relationships between villages and within Okonkwo's village can only be interpreted as purposeful. Conrad depicted the Congolese natives as manipulatable barbarians; Achebe's Africans are religous, subscribe to morals and social codes, and think dynamically/strategically about their standing with other people and other villages. |
| | 14 | 2/8/2010 5:16 PM | Superstition/Religion The Sfricans in "Things Fall Apart" are very religious, but their religion seems almost true and tangible, even to outsiders. Their priestess Chielo really does become possessed by Agbala, and their superstitions really do come to fruitition. I think this is because they believe in it so wholeheartedly, it becomes reality to them, even though it may not be for others. Thoughts? |
| | 0 | 2/7/2010 10:53 PM | Okonkwo n alienation frum god Chisnell has a quote from The Trial at the top of the Things Fall Apart discussion. I know some of yall have read it, but it is basically a pretty vague book that you can take a couple of different things away from. What I took away was that: God does things that we can't understand and trying to is pointless. 2 things about Ikemefuna's execution remind of The Trial. 1 is that the village Oracle says he must be done in without providing reason and everyone follows no questions asked and 2 is that a group of men lead him out into the middle of nowhere and stab him. I doubt these are allusions, because this is not a book about western books, but Achebe may have let The Trial steep into his subconscious or may be talking about something similar to Franz. I guess I think it's weird that they seem to take logic completely out of their faith with some serious matters like execution. Then again I haven't finished the book, so maybe their was a more sensicle reason for Ikemefuna's. |
| | 15 | 2/7/2010 10:29 PM | Okonkwo's influences So Okonkwo's whole thing is about not being like his dad. That's pretty cool I guess, but he's only doing that because it's what society tells him to do. I guess he probably figured that he'd need to work hard to continue his legacy (which i guess, ironically, is also his dad's legacy. And that seems to freak him out, which probably has to do with why he gets so mad at his girly son). It looks like the opposition of his dad vs. society will follow him through the novel, especially during the ikefuma execution, where his loving dadly feelings conflict with societies demands and of course he cuts off his dadly/natural feelings. I don't know, pretty crazy stuff. I also thought like he might have felt abandoned. Like since society defines men a certain way, and his dad was the opposite, it was like he had no dad at all. |
| | 18 | 2/7/2010 1:27 PM | Nwoye Okonkwo's first son has a lot on his shoulders. As the first born, he is destined to take over his father's farm, and to care for the family should Okonkwo perish. But Okonkwo thinks he is lazy and slow. I think Nwoye is a good amalgamation of Okonkwo and his father, and he would have a lot more drive if Okonkwo wasn't so overbearing, but I'm curious as to what other thoughts are. I have a feeling Nwoye will play a bigger part in the coming chapters. |
| | 14 | 2/7/2010 12:08 PM | Okonkwo and his efforts to be greater As we see Okonkwo, he is highly motivated to achieve better. My question stems from Freud's ideas. While normally a male would strive to become better than their own father, to become the dominant, Okonkwo has that as an easy path to take. He would essentially had to have become better than nothing in order to become dominant over his weak father figure. Yet still we see him strive incredibly hard, in contrast to what is expected. We see fear as a motive, but can that fear really drive him to such a great extreme, when he has already established himself in assuring dominance? |
| | 16 | 2/7/2010 11:50 AM | Love for a son or God? Just a train of thought :)
I find a little disturbing that Okonkwo would assist in the murder of him favorite son, even if it might not be his real son. And today in class i was thinking about the elder man that Okonkwo talked to about the killing. He was a respected elder and he was high up on the "social ladder" yet he hasn't assisted in a murder like Okonkwo did. I makes me think that the more Okonkwo strives to be unlike his father, the more he looses his humanity. A man isn't week because he didn't want to help kill a person, but in Okonkwo's eyes he is. He is loosing himself in being different from his father and is loosing all human emotion along with that.
Hope that made sense... |
| | 5 | 2/7/2010 11:50 AM | interview reading "I don't know why that should be so, but we work ourselves into all kinds of corners from which we then become uneasy when certain words are mentioned. That's not the fault of the words; there is perhaps something wrong with us."
I thought this quote was interesting because it obviously relates to deconstructionism. Both sets of interviews with Achebe have some kind of spin on language and what it really means, and even how much it lacks in true communication. Achebe mentions that one couple's predicament in one of his books is beyond words, but with this particular quote he seems to blame humans for our lack of ability to put our words to true use.
Should we blame the words or the speaker? Thoughts?
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| | 5 | 2/7/2010 10:23 AM | Village Structure So this is something general but I am confused about the structure and set up of the villages. I'm confused as to what exactly Umuofia is? Is it the nine villages mentioned in the book or is it the specific area Okonkwo lives in? And where is the village that Ikemefuna comes from? I guess I'm just confused as to how the villages are set up in comparison to one another and how close in proximity they are.
So if someone could explain this I would really apprecaite it.
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| | 8 | 2/7/2010 9:52 AM | Achebe's language The diction in this book is very simple and i've been postulating a couple things that achebe could be trying to get across with his language.
1. this book is a direct response to heart of darkness, and conrad's writing was sooo thick and hard-to-read that achebe could be contrasting his book in form as well as content.
2. the religion these villages follow is polytheistic, and christians/modern people often find followers of polytheistic religions simplistic or "stupid," and his writing almost seems an ironic response to that.
3. also, conrads savages are supposed to be dumb animals, and achebe could be showing that even without all the big words and long sentences his content can be just as meaningful and have just as big an impact as conrads. |