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"...something bleak and unapproachable..."
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| | 10 | 3/19/2012 7:21 PM | Ethan Frome Movie
After watching the scene from the movie Ethan Frome it showed how Hollywood has no control when it came to changing the story. In the book during their first date Mattie and Ethan did not kiss they just had dinner together. By having them kiss at the end of the night changed it from wondering if Ethan and Mattie have the same feelings for each other to both of them cheating in Zeena. |
| | 7 | 3/18/2012 11:53 AM | Broken Marriage Even more than before, the broken pickle jar in page 109 symbolized the broken marriage between Ethan and Zeena. While obviously it can be seen that Mattie and Ethan are responsible for the marriage breaking apart, since they were responsible for the jar shattering, Wharton implies Zeena is also at fault. As discussed on previous posts, the cat represents Zeena, so the fact that the cat physically broke the jar suggests Zeena also plays a role in the breaking marriage. It is interesting to note how Ethan just tried to hide the jar and worry about it later, just as he brushes Zeena’s promise to kick out Mattie away, instead of trying to fix the problem at hand. In this respect, Ethan could be seen as cowardly.
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| | 7 | 3/17/2012 7:51 PM | We are to young I feel like we are too young to know what this books true meaning should be, because we do not know love the way adults do, we are to immature as highschoolers |
| | 1 | 3/15/2012 3:40 AM | "The Painted Door"-"John was the man." In this short story by Sinclair Ross (which was awesome, by the way), there's a repeated phrase that rather intrigued me. Near the end of the narrative, the speaker says, "John was the man," at least twice (I thought maybe thrice, though I can't find it), and it seems to be used to convince herself of the value of her husband. But then again, she seems to simply be stating fact- "With him lay the future." Why?
Because she feels so guilty about her moment of infidelity, she decides that she'll spend the rest of her life making up for it, but also understands the draw of Steven, and why she really went after him.
Thoughts? |
| | 4 | 3/11/2012 11:44 AM | Connection to Adventure Page 124 of Ethan Frome shows a strong parallel to Adventure. On page 124, when Ethan was think about running away with Mattie, it reads, “With the sudden perception of the point to which his madness had carried him, the madness fell and he saw his life before him as it was. He was a poor man, the husband of a sickly woman, whom his desertion would leave alone and destitute; and even if he had the heart to desert her he could have done so only by deceiving two kindly people who had pitied him. He turning and walked slowly back to the farm.” This is almost exactly how Alice feels at the end of Adventure. She wants to go dancing naked in the rain and starts to, but realizes it is absurd and walks back home. Both of these characters vie for something more, but don’t end up pulling through. Did anybody else notice any pother connection between these two works?
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| | 2 | 3/11/2012 11:36 AM | Feeling Guilty I have noticed that in Ethan Frome and in the couple of short stories that we read that share similarities with Ethan Frome, the lonely person that wants to be with someone else always feels guilty. Ethan Frome kind of liked Mattie, but even when nothing had happened between them he felt that things were very wrong and that always made him feel paranoid of getting caught by Zeena even though he was not really doing anything. Alice in the Adventure story felt it wrong to even talk to or be near another guy. And finally in the painted door story, the wife felt so wrong just for having that man stay the night at her house and because she was thinking about how handsome he was. She did not do anything, though, and should not feel so bad about what happened, but I mean, I guess that it is better for her to do that than to think that nothing was a big deal even if she were to flirt and take too much of an interest in other men. It was just weird how they all felt bad for just a thought or something very small with another person but it was nice to see how these people wanted to stay so loyal unlike many other couples of today. |
| | 2 | 3/11/2012 11:32 AM | Zeena Cunning On page 97, I think it is fairly obvious that Zeena is lying. After hearing from the doctor that she shouldn’t lift a finger in her house and needs somebody to come in and do all the work, she says she has found somebody already. He notices this and the novel reads on page 97, “He no longer believed what Zeena had told his of the supposed seriousness of her state: he saw in her expedition to Bettsbridge only a plot hatched between herself and her Pierce relations to foist on him the cost of a servant; and for the moment wrath predominated.” After all, it would be quite unlikely that she would find help this quickly, and not even tell Ethan about it, however, she chooses her words carefully, and it works.
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| | 1 | 3/11/2012 11:28 AM | Conflict On page 98, when describing the tension between Zeena and Ethan, it says, “Through the obscurity which hid their faces their thoughts seemed to dart at each other like serpents shooting venom. Ethan was seized with horror of the scene and shame at his own share in it. It was as senseless and savage as a physical fight between two enemies in the darkness.” The tension between them was as intense as a physical fight. This is important to note, as not much has actually happened in the book thus far, and not too much does happen; the plot can be summed up quickly. However, the tension and conflict lies in their failure to act and their inner conflict. Relating to what Mr. Chisnell said in first hour, it is hard for movie directors to replicate this kind of conflict on screen, perhaps why the books always seem to be better.
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| | 4 | 3/11/2012 11:26 AM | What's underneath? I still am having a hard time figuring out what's underneath the surface of the text. Every sentence seems to be literal to me. Maybe that's why this book is so genius and why mr.chisnell assigned it. It's such simple text with a deep and difficult message. It has me stumped, everything I read seems so basic. I guess the text has a lot of difficult connotations. |
| | 10 | 3/11/2012 11:03 AM | Short Story: Is Ned really the bad guy? When discussing the short story i find that people often refer to Ned as an asshole and he is to blame for Alice's pain. This pisses me off! Granted i'm stuck in class where around 90% of the class is the female population and therefore it should be an expected reaction. However if you put yourself in Ned's shoes what could you have done? Think about it. They were both young and had no experience with love. Then Ned moves for work into the city and life happens. This story just means that long distance relationships have a profound affect on women. If the story continued and Ned came back the next day would Ned still be the blame for what happened to her the past 10 years? I think that Ned really did care about Alice at the time but just as friends do lovers grow apart. He met other women in the big city and they were probably similar to Alice,and in much closer proximity. That's not Ned's fault, that's just how romance in life operates. I'm not saying that Alice has only herself to blame but people make it appear as if because Ned is a guy and he made this promise out of his youth that he is to be blamed the most.
*Angry Rant Over* |
| | 5 | 3/11/2012 10:56 AM | Alternate Ending to "Adventure" This just popped into my mind as I was reading the last page of "Adventure", but I was definitely expecting something different from the finale of this short story. As Alice runs out naked into the rain, searching for somebody to call out to and embrace, I was half expecting the man she found to be none other than Ned Currie, the man she was waiting for the whole time. I thought that might have been a more conclusive ending, because it Ned would've finally come back, only to see Alice as a complete mess and failure, looking crazy as she stands naked in the rain. I think this would've expressed more about a potential message about obsession, and how it creates false images in one's mind. However, this did not happen, as it seems Anderson was trying to portray something a bit different with this story. |
| | 9 | 3/10/2012 9:50 PM | In-class Short Story In Sixth Hour, we discussed (largely) how Alice was to blame for her heart-ache and loneliness, and I just don't see it that way. She met Ned when she was just 16, a time when you don't truly know who you are. I think her pain stems from a huge case of mis-communication, or Ned is just your run of the mill ass hole. She is with him for a memorable part of her life we she is growing up and making decisions that he is constantly influencing. She's feeling emotions that are heightened by adolescent hormones and I don't blame her for wanting to feel that again. She becomes obsessed with Ned because he's all she's grown up with. |
| | 13 | 3/4/2012 6:59 PM | Why DON'T you like this book? Over the past few weeks, I have heard many exclaim the loathing of "Ethan Frome," and to be blatantly honest, I had not read it yet. So, I was dreading it, but I started to, and yes, I fell in love. I couldn't put the book down, and for a day or two I was completely engrossed in the depressing yet somehow addicting plot of Ethan Frome. Now I have made this post for a reason: Why don't people like this book? It is absolutely my favorite for the entire year, and not because it was easy to read, the plot and symbols and everything, just made sense. I really enjoyed it, and I thought it was not dry at all. Mattie is an idiot, Ethan is a lovesick idiot, and Zeena just a whiny hypochondriac, but somehow it all works, and I am enamored by it. Why are some people not? Thoughts? |
| | 5 | 3/4/2012 6:51 PM | Forbidden Passion I'm looking at Ethan as belonging to Zeena. A clear symbol of Ethan in the book then would be the red pickle dish. Red is the color of passion and the dish belongs to Zeena. So when Mattie takes the dish it is a representation of what she really wants to take. I'm just wondering what the dish breaking is? |
| | 10 | 3/4/2012 6:33 PM | Does Zeena love Ethan ? I know it seems like a silly question, but think about it. Perhaps when they were first married, Zeena was truly in love with her husband. Perhaps once they decided not to move to the city and Ethan had his dreams destroyed he became bitter, Zeena had only her hypochondria to hold his attention. Why else would the pickle dish be so dear to her ? It reminds her of the time newly we or honeymoon phase that they were in during the beginning of their marriage. |
| | 13 | 3/4/2012 6:28 PM | Is Ethan Frome Creepy? Lila mentioned in 3rd Hour that she thought Ethan Frome was "creepy". I disagree with this. I think that Ethan Frome is just incredibly unhappy. He was forced to leave his aspirations of higher education behind to take care of his sick mother (who died anyway), and out of desperation and a fear of being alone he proposed to a woman who also became sick, and has spent their marriage being emotionally cold and critical (it's fairly safe to assume that their sex life is less than exciting). Not only is he stuck in an unhappy marriage, but his farm and mill are barren and Ethan Frome is barely getting by financially. Ethan's only small ray of happiness is the cheerful and friendly cousin of his wife, who Ethan realizes he can never be with. What do you guys think? Is Ethan Frome creepy? Why or why not? |
| | 8 | 3/4/2012 5:12 PM | Why might Zeena be a b? Zeena seems a little too cold and rude to her husband. It doesn't seem reasonable that she would treat him like this unprovoked. I've come up with a small theory as to why she acts the way that she does, but I'm also interested in the thoughts of others on this one. I think that Zeena is cruel because she's picked up on interactions between Ethan and Mattie even before Ethan became attracted to her. My basis for this comes from when Mattie is telling Ethan that she first started to like him back in the summer when he found her ring. Ethan may have been oblivious to this but I'm sure Zeena saw the way Mattie started to look at him and that's when she started her mood change. |
| | 2 | 3/4/2012 10:13 AM | Therapeutic Excursion
In first hour on Friday, we discussed briefly the following quote at the end of chapter three, describing how Zeena is leaving to see a doctor, “…but also because he knew from experience the imprudence of letting Zeena think he was in funs on the eve of one of her therapeutic excursions.” Since he says he knows from experience, it can be safely assumed that she has left for the doctor’s many times before. Also, we can infer that he does not necessarily think her trips are necessary. Describing it as an excursion makes it sound like a superfluous adventure, or even a vacation. Whether he thinks Zeena is not really sick or that the treatment doesn’t really do anything, one thing is for sure: he thinks her trips are a waste of money. Perhaps this is his twisted way of justifying how he is acting toward Mattie. After all, if Zeena gets to go on one of her trips, shouldn’t he at least get to have some fun with Mattie? |
| | 1 | 3/4/2012 9:51 AM | In Defense of Zeena I think that so far we've been pretty harsh on Zeena. We've been viewing the story, as Chisnell told us to, as a love story. We've been viewing it as a traditional love story- the love birds are obviously the good ones, and Zeena must be the conniving women standing in the way of their happiness. But if you look at it, I think that Zeena handled the situation as well as she could have. She married a man that asked her to and probably expected him to continue the attention he had been giving her while he used her to care for his sick parents. Instead, she met awkwardness, reserve, and dissatisfaction. She does sink into a state of hypochondria, but these are desperate cries for attention, and her trips to the doctor are probably the only times she gets to see the family she gave up. When Mattie comes he tolerates her, but then, seeing the growing affection between her and Ethan, comes up with a way to send Mattie away. She doesn't do the worst though. She could confront them, force them to choose between what is right and what they desire. She could tell the town about their fraternizing, disgracing both of them. But she doesn't. She leaves them alone and Mattie uses a pickle dish that she expressly told her not to use and breaks it. Poor thanks for someone who took you in out of charity and for whom you've proven a less than ideal worker. Anyway, Zeena says Mattie must leave because she needs a new hired girl to take care of the house and her. Let's face it, Mattie was living off their charity and performing substandard work. Zeena had to make her own way in the world, why shouldn't Mattie. Additionally, isn't the separation of Zeena and Mattie for the best? Neither can have the other, isn't it better that Mattie be able to go off and live a new life, find a younger, unmarried man that can provide for her. And Ethan cannot morally leave his wife destitute. So it would be better for both of them if they got over each other. But no, they decide to pull a Romeo and Juliet, "I'd rather die with you than without you" bit of melodrama. So honestly, I think we need to reevaluate our perception of Zeena and realize that this story is being told by a narrator who is piecing the story together by observing Ethan Frome, he doesn't really have Zeena's side of the story, we only perceive Ethan's angst and heartbreak and more angst. |
| | 9 | 3/3/2012 11:45 PM | Boldness Page 73 of the Dover Edition, end of the final chapter, Ethan said something that greatly surprised me. When Mattie asks him why he wants to sit in front, his response, "Because I-because I want to feel you holding me," seems uncharacteristically bold. He has never vocalized his desires for Mattie, and has rarely acted upon them, so this sudden demand for physical affection surprised me. I'd say that because he knows it's "the end", he has finally decided to assert himself, the one thing he's been yearning to do his whole life. Any theories on why he suddenly decided to take such an approach? |
| | 1 | 3/3/2012 11:01 PM | Zeena’s Presence
The scene on page 77 is dreamlike, borderline weird. While Mattie is sitting in the rocking chair that Zeena always sits in when she is home, Ethan imagined Zeena’s face on Mattie’s body. This, to me, makes me think that Ethan cannot rid Zeena from his life. Even though Ethan may dream of being with Mattie, he cannot stop thinking of Zeena. This, combined with the tombstone scene a chapter earlier, foreshadows that the relationship between Ethan and Mattie will never be, that Zeena will always be in the picture. The scenes where Ethan and Mattie are together are short lived. This either could be Ethan’s subconscious that really loves Zeena leaking out, or it could be that Ethan knows it is immoral. Do you guys think Ethan truly does love his wife, or does he just morally obligated to stay with her? |
| | 1 | 3/3/2012 10:57 PM | The Cat
The cat seems to represent Zeena in a way. The only time the cat is ever mentioned, or at least to only time I have ever picked up on it, is when Zeena is away. In the scenes with Ethan and Mattie, the cat is present, symbolizing how Zeena is still there, for example, the cat knocked over the pickle jar, which did stop the progressing conversation between Ethan and Mattie. Also, on page 83, the cat watches them in her rocking chair, and when it jumps off, the chair keeps rocking, almost as if Zeena were still on it. The cat does seem to break the awkward tensions between Zeena and Ethan. It will be interesting to see what role the cat plays, if any, at later parts of the novel. |
| | 2 | 3/3/2012 10:52 PM | Mattie’s Innocence
My feelings about whether Mattie likes Ethan back were solidified in the Fifth and Sixth Chapter; she doesn’t but doesn’t say anything about it. For example, on page 80, after being told a semi-creepy quote about her friends kissing, she blushes. Also, on page 84, Ethan kisses one end of her quilt and she stop sewing and gets up. I think Mattie is just trying to be a good employee and not cause trouble. After all, is Mattie were to bring it up to Ethan or Zeena, she can pretty much bet she wouldn’t be staying there anymore. She was a bit paranoid on page 82 about Zeena not liking her, and talking to her about Ethan liking her would not help things. So I think Zeena is just going to keep her mouth shut and pretend like it doesn’t happen, hoping it will pass. |
| | 1 | 3/3/2012 6:32 PM | Zeena's back On page 97 after Zeena comes back, she starts to tell Ethan that she has hired a new lady to come and help her around the house. This, to me, sounds like such a sudden and unexpected decision. Ethan also feels this way because he is shocked and even furious on the inside about this decision that did not involve his input at all. He starts to talk about how they cannot really pay this person, which very well may be true, but I think that the main problem for him is that there will no longer be a Mattie any more. Also, this is the first time that Zeena and Ethan have actually had a real fight and this is finally where they kind of get it all out, at least Zeena does. Zeena never usually talks much at all, and now she is kind of bringing out how she feels about things like when she took care of his mother and how she thinks Ethan is already neglecting the farm. |
| | 4 | 3/3/2012 6:25 PM | Pickles and Donuts In 3rd hour, we talked quite a bit about the sexual tension between Mattie and Ethan from pages 71 to 76. Ethan "feigned an insatiable appetite for donuts and sweet pickles," for example, while the young cat they call "Puss" sat between them in an empty chair... ZEENA's empty chair. And then the cat broke the pickle dish, and that was basically the scene. Then at the end of the chapter on page 76, Ethan "had never known such a thrilling sense of mastery except for when he was steering a big log down the mountain." |
| | 3 | 3/3/2012 6:06 PM | Getting rid of Mattie Around page 100, Ethan realizes that Zeena's plan is to get rid of Mattie. Ethan of course is very against this idea and tries to defend Mattie with everything that he can. This makes you wonder, maybe Zeena does see something with Mattie and Ethan, so now she is trying to get rid of Mattie. To her, Mattie is just bad news and if you ask me, later on when Zeena finds out that the dish was broken, she is very mean to Mattie and it is almost as if she is attacking her. This is where we really feel that Zeena is the villain in the story, preventing Ethan from being happy, but I am sure that there are other ways to look at this where Zeena is not so bad. The things that just happened in these scenes are just so sudden, and at that point I did not want any of that stuff to happen to Ethan and Mattie. This part of the novel was just kind of a sad part. |
| | 12 | 3/3/2012 2:12 PM | What if the setting was in Miami? This is the question that the substitute in third hour brought to the class's attention. He explained that he also read this book in a class room setting and that his instructor asked this question. The cold environment in the story reflects the cold feelings that are shared between Ethan and his wife and characters to be discovered, I'm sure. I thought this idea of setting change was interesting and I would like to know if anyone else had any thoughts on this idea. |
| | 7 | 3/3/2012 2:00 PM | "Adventure"- Sherwood Anderson So this was definitely one of the weirdest things Chisnell has presented us with. It might even be on par with the Little Red Riding Hood film... Anyways, "Adventure" was pretty much a story about a sad lady who wasted 10 years of her life waiting for a lover that was never coming back. After finally growing too lonely to bear, she decides to run naked in the rain, and hug the first person she sees. I'm not exactly sure what this story is trying to tell us-maybe something about the degradation of the mind when it become obsessed with someone or something. Any ideas? |
| | 4 | 3/3/2012 12:29 PM | Abruptness Warning: this might be a spoiler, depending on how far you've read. I know a lot of people aren't exactly following the set schedule.
Anyways, in chapter 7, when Mattie and Ethan actually embrace and he kisses her, I was rather surprised. It seemed completely out of the blue, and rather under-dramatized. I had expected it to be described in great detail, with tension leading up to it and everything, like any romantic scene is written. Yet in this scene, only 5 sentences are spent on the act and the effect. I'm curious why so little time and so little words were used to tell the readers what had happened. Why did Wharton choose to write it so? |
| | 6 | 3/3/2012 12:22 PM | What is the hardest part about reading this book? WE discussed in 6th hour what we thought our greatest challenges were by reading this book. WE discussed the factor of the realness of the characters that makes it hard for us as a reader to put them into a category (villan, good guy, prince charming, etc.). We also discussed how the characters, especially Mattie, don't fully express the reactions they have. Does Mattie actually like Ethan, or is he just imagining this? THought? |
| | 5 | 3/3/2012 12:29 AM | Ethan's Entrapping Environment Ethan's environment suits him... One line, for example, on page 25, is meant to describe the environment in which Ethan is standing, but the reader can't help but assume it is also referring to the protagonist: "[I]n the pure and frosty darkness in which he stood" describes the physical environment and also captures the inferred mood of Ethan at the time; standing alone, outside, staring at his crush, Ethan feels isolated from the community and unable to act on his desires. I'm sure there are more sections like this
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| | 1 | 3/2/2012 11:13 PM | Berries
Wharton's use of fruit throughout this book intrigues me. In the beginning of the story, Mattie's scarf is described as "cherry-red". Page 66 (of the Dover Edition), Mattie is described as "bright as a blackberry". Are blackberries normally described as bright? No. I certainly don't associate that noun and adjective together.
Further down on the page, Ethan says that he found her previously-lost locket near some blueberry bushes. Can you find other mentions of berries in the book? Why did she use these fruits as a recurring theme throughout? Or am I picking up on something that really isn't significant?
I'd also like to point out that the word "uncouth" was used. :) |
| | 0 | 2/27/2012 6:36 PM | XtraNormal Post- stark fields/ the eye is lazy Here we are again with MLK and Polo. This time with better accents! Enjoy and continue the thread! Link here- http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/13106416/frome-2 |
| | 0 | 2/26/2012 7:44 PM | Jotham Powell
I propose that Jotham Powell represents real, everyday life to Ethan. From the scene on page 86 in the beginning of Chapter 6, that was the impression I got. Ethan’s feelings with Mattie are like a fantasy world, while his life with Zeena is more real. So in that respect, Ethan’s dream of Mattie correlates with his dream of being an engineer in a big city, while instead he lives with sickly Zeena in a small town. The dinner a few chapter before this was Ethan living in his fantasy world with Mattie, and things were going good. But in Chapter 6, reality hits him when Jotham Powell visits, and the connection between Ethan and Mattie is pretty non-existent. The two dinner scenes have strong parallels, as emphasized by the last line of the chapter “…as she had said the night before: ‘I guess it’s about time for supper,’” however the mood is completely different. This is because Ethan had a reality check of sorts, brought on in part by Mr. Powell’s visit. |
| | 1 | 2/26/2012 7:16 PM | Interesting comparison On page 75, Ethan makes a very interesting observation or comparison about his evening with Mattie. After the plate breaks and he is looking at it on the floor, the narrator makes an great comparison that "It seemed to him as if the shattered fragments of their evening lay there." To Ethan, there evening is ruined and it kind of went all wrong. It did not turn out as he had planned it. Maybe this can serve as a sign to him that what is going on between him and Mattie is wrong and that maybe it should not be. All the signs point to Ethan not feeling comfortable with what he is doing, and yet he has not mention that it is how he feels and maybe he just does not even know what to think. |
| | 1 | 2/26/2012 7:14 PM | Ethan losing it On page 68 there is a part where Denis Eady was going towards the direction of his house where Mattie was and from that he drew up this whole absurd conclusion. Just because Denis was going that way, Ethan concluded that Denis had heard of Zeena's departure and was seizing the opportunity to spend time with Mattie. All this guy can think about is Mattie. He is getting to be very paranoid and is overreacting to everything around him. When he gets home he even asks if there were any vistors and tried to make sure that all the vistor did was have some coffee and that is all. His obsession is going too far and I wonder when he is either going to realize that he is acting like a fool or when he is just going to give up with Zeena and pursue Mattie the proper way. |
| | 1 | 2/26/2012 7:12 PM | Warmth While reading, take note on the authors use of warm adjectives and the use of heat to create shifts, especially in scenes with Frome and Mattie. Whether it's Matties "flamming guard" or the warmth they seem to create as they gaze at each other, the metaphorical heat appears to melt away the stiff and bleak world of winter. |
| | 1 | 2/26/2012 7:09 PM | Foreshadowing? Ethan appears to have sudden shifts in mood where he will become very commanding and forceful in his tone. He also finds himself with thoughts consisting of violent forms of jealousy. I am curious as to whether or not these instances are foreshadowing a greater outburst from Ethan in the future. Guess I'll just have to keep reading to find out. |
| | 1 | 2/26/2012 7:07 PM | Characters Complexity It was brought up in class on Friday that all the characters in this book have a deeper complexity than most book characters have. the characters are like real people, with no set personality. I think it's amazing how the author was able to capture the complexity of real people, without complicating things in the story too much. I think it's refreshing to have to question whether a character is a villian or not, there are so many factors that support both sides in Zeena's case. |
| | 4 | 2/26/2012 5:06 PM | Love Ethan Frome is mysterious it is without a doubt. i think its interesting and kind of making a connection into AP Lit's teachings that; i think this book is about love and i feel like Derrida showed us that love is the most complicated thing in philosophy. so it fits that Frome would be the most complicated thing and at that also being mysterious |
| | 4 | 2/26/2012 5:02 PM | Mastery At the end of Chpater 4, Ethan Frome's admiration for Mattie appears to manifest into a desire for power over her. While his affection is still duly noted, he receives a "thrilling sense of mastery" as he commands her to come back to supper, which subdues her. I am curious as to how much of Frome's desires for Mattie are out of love compared to power. |
| | 5 | 2/26/2012 4:31 PM | How Starksfield sees Ethan Earlier in the week someone said something about how the people in town view him as a good guy who gave up his dreams to take care of his mother, and later, his wife. I don't know if I really see that. From what I gather, I feel like the people in town see him as kinda a weird guy, someone to gossip and guess about. I think his introverted personality is unique in Starksfield and therefore is cause for uneasiness. The fact that there are very few characters in the story that interact with Ethan is what gives me this idea. |
| | 8 | 2/26/2012 4:24 PM | What does Mattie see in Ethan?/ Why does everyone have major problems? Okay, maybe it is just me but I despise Ethan Frome! First of all, he treats his wife like crap. Granted she is whiney and certainly has psycho problems of her own, but is that reason to completely ignore her and have an affair...with her cousin? Afterall, it was he who impulsively proposed to Zeena after his mumsie died. Shouldn't he take responsibility for that choice? Or at least be honest with her? All three main characters are so passive aggressive that it bugs me to no end!
And Mattie too, why would she pursue an affair with her cousin's husband? Doesn't anyone have any morals? Besides, she has a nice Dennis Eady boy wooing her. Why does she turn him down? Is Ethan really sooooo much better than Dennis? Why? Why Why????? |
| | 6 | 2/26/2012 3:32 PM | Does Zeena Know?
Do you guys think if Zeena knows that Ethan doesn’t really love her anymore and wants to be with her cousin? It is obvious to us that he is, but does Zeena know that. Ethan began shaving every day when Mattie came into town, but I’m not sure if it’s that noticeable for Zeena. When Zeena goes off to see a doctor in another town, Ethan doesn’t want to take her since he doesn’t want to be with her, so he sends a friend to do it and lies, saying that he has to pick up a payment, which he never collects. If Zeena comes home and Ethan doesn’t have to money, will she become suspicious? I’m not sure if Ethan is being naïve, thinking Zeena won’t find out, or tells her later, or just hopes she dies. I really have no clue, any help? |
| | 6 | 2/26/2012 3:27 PM | Love or Obsession? The other day in class when we were having discussions about the novel, somebody asked a really interesting question and that is, "Do you think that Ethan loves or has an obsession with Mattie?" This, to me, was a really good question that makes you think for a while. To answer the question, I believe that Ethan is probably obsessed with her. I do not think that he can actually live her because he does not even really know her. He has barely even spoken to her, let alone gotten to know her. I just would not classify what is going on as love, to me, it is just more of an obsession. Everything about her to him is amazing and he just cannot get over her. He just has this little fantasy in his head of what could be with him and her and that to me, is an obsession. |
| | 14 | 2/26/2012 3:14 PM | Is Zeena a Villain? This question came up during discussion in 6th hour. Personally, I don't think she is. While Zeena appears to be the antagonist of the novel, that does not necessarily make her evil. It is true that she is very cynnical about her life with Ethan, and her illness does seem to be feigning illness for attention. She could just be, however, a person living an unhappy life and expresses it more than necessary. She may even be considered a victim, because after all her husband is desperate to cheat on her. |
| | 16 | 2/26/2012 2:41 PM | The Narrator I like how the author chose a narrator that was a stranger to Starkfield. It gives us fresh eye as to who Ethan Frome is. And according to the story so far, most everyone in the town knows of him. together we get to learn about the mysterious Frome. |
| | 2 | 2/26/2012 12:22 PM | Mattie vs. Zeena
I just wanted to talk about the description of Mattie when we first meet her. It reads, in Chapter 1, that she has a “cherry-coloured ‘fascinator’ about her head,” later saying , “As she passes down the line, her light figure swinging from hand to hand in circles of increasing swiftness, the scarf flew off her head and stood out being her shoulders.” It is interesting to say a scarf is a fascinator and describing it a cherry makes us think of the Eve biblical allusion, but also makes me think of The Scarlet Letter. In this way, Mattie represents vitality, youth, and femininity. In this way, it is easy to see why Ethan would be attracted to her, rather than the sickly old Zeena, whom I will discuss in the following post. Also, Mattie is a great contrast to the bleak Starkfield. |
| | 5 | 2/26/2012 11:19 AM | Naming
To me, the naming of Zeena and Mattie seems opposite. Mattie sounds like matte, which is like the city, when I thought Mattie was supposed to be juxtaposed with the bland city with her life and color. Also, Matte is describes as feminine, while her nickname is Matt, a guy’s name. Zeena, on the other hand, whose name sounds exotic, is described as angular, sickly, and flat breasted. I’m not exactly sure why Wharton chose this, maybe for us to not assume things. After all, it seems like the descriptions of the characters come well before the actual names of them, so maybe she is trying to deemphasize them. Or I could be over analyzing this, anybody that could help me out, or any other names that you think carry significance? |
| | 10 | 2/26/2012 10:42 AM | The long ellipsis at the end of the prologue I know I'm focusing on a tiny detail here that might be meaningless, but it's bothering me. Why are there almost three full lines of periods at the end of the prologue? To me it gave the image of "fading out" into the rest of the story, but I don't know if that was the intended effect. The previous sentence ended in a normal ellipsis (...), and flipping ahead I can see that at the end of chapter one there are four periods at the end, but chapter two is normal. Is it just supposed to show a slow shift between those chapters? Is it to fit some sort of stylistic convention of the time? Was the period key on Wharton's typewriter just sticking? I'm curious to know what others think. |
| | 3 | 2/26/2012 10:26 AM | What is Grim Satisfaction? When the narrator finds himself (I'm pretty sure it's a he) anchored in Starkfield, he says that "under the hypnotizing effect of routine, I gradually began to find a grim satisfaction in the life." An oxymoron, I believe this "grim satisfaction" is apparent in many people. I'm just not quite sure how to best describe it. maybe along the lines of one who is satisfied when they finish the work of their monotonous job in a stuffy cubicle? |
| | 8 | 2/26/2012 10:25 AM | Winter as a character Today at the end of class Chiz brought up the idea that perhaps the winter itself should be considered a character. I don't know if I quite see that. The only thing that I could thing of to justify winter as a character would be that it's a complimentary element to Ethan and affects his actions. (which seems to be what the other characters do ) I don't know, other than that I don't think winter could be another character, I think it's quite a stretch myself. |
| | 2 | 2/26/2012 10:21 AM | Is this story the truth? It seems as though we've all accepted that the story the narrator is telling is the honest to God truth, but I'm kind of questioning it. After all, it would be incredibly hard for the narrator to deduce all of these facts from hearing just pieces of the story from those in town. Also, I'm still questioning the validity of it, even just based on the end of the prologue. Leading into the first chapter, the narrator says, "I found the clue to Ethan Frome and began to put together this vision of his story." Ethan doesn't open up and talk to the narrator at all, so I don't see any way that this story could be Ethan's. It's fabricated by the narrator, so is it really Ethan's story at all? |
| | 0 | 2/26/2012 10:20 AM | Women in Ethan Frome
Soooo.... just a thought that I had while reading the novel: it seems that women are portrayed as either subservient beauties like Mattie, passive-aggressive and harsh shrews like Zeena or motherly types like Mrs. Hale. As some others have brought up, this story is similar to Heart of Darkness with the "barrier factor": the story we receive strays from the "true story" because we hear Ethan's version, Harmon Gow's version, Starkfield resident's version, and finally, our male narrator's version. Notice the male influence of the story. This influence could perhaps be the reason for the portrayal of the women in the story. But of course, the novel is written by a woman, Edith Wharton. Did she want to accentuate the archetypes that women are placed into? Or was that such a natural occurence of the day that she didn't think about it? |
| | 4 | 2/26/2012 9:32 AM | The cat The cat is a very interesting peice to this story and even more interesting is how it effects Ethan. When Zeena is gone to go see the doctor, the cat seems to take the place of Zeena or that is at least how Ethan seems to see it. The cat sat in Zeena's spot and to him, it seemed like it was watching him as if when Zeena came back, the cat would report to her what it saw. Ethan gets very paranoid when Zeena is gone, even the mention of her name made him kind of freeze or go numb. Throughout the whole dinner with Mattie, Ethan felt as if Zeena were there and he maybe was starting to feel guilty and afraid. The whole thing is just really bugging him and he has got to feel that this is so wrong even though this is what he wants. |
| | 0 | 2/26/2012 8:04 AM | Importance of Setting I saw The Descendants last night, and it made me strike some parallels to Ethan Frome. Basically, the movie is about George Clooney's character, who lives in Hawaii with his comatose wife, trying to repair his relationship with his daughters. The plot itself is actually quite somber, which is a stark contrast from the setting of beautiful Hawaii. The movie made a point of this contrast, showing sprawling shots of beaches, palm trees, and beautiful weather, then cutting right to shots of Clooney's dying wife. This situation just reminded me of a reversal of Ethan Frome, where the setting is very dreary and emotionally draining, but completely warm and hopeful whenever Ethan is around Mattie. I realized that setting is a useful tool for authors that many readers tend to forget about. They can use it to do just about anything: contrast the emotions of the plot, support the psychology of the characters, or parallel the theme of the novel, such as in Heart of Darkness. |
| | 1 | 2/25/2012 2:52 PM | XtraNormal Post- the pickle dish I have begun to experiment with a new medium of satitzing our daily happenings in class, thanks to inspiration from Mr. Chisnell, and figured I may as well be productive with it. So! Here goes post #1 with XtraNormal, this time with Marco Polo on the moon discussing the "pickle dish" scene! Enjoy!
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/13096545/historical-figurez-movie |
| | 1 | 2/25/2012 1:56 PM | Pride and Reason "'See here- you ain't in a tight place, are you?'
'Not a bit,' Ethan's pride retorted before his reason had time to intervene"
Clearly Frome's pride is coming in conflict with finding solutions to his problems in Starkfield and will likely cause conflict in much of the story. It is also noted that his belief that he can control Mattie makes his "soul swell with pride", possibly explaining part of his strong affection for her. |
| | 0 | 2/25/2012 12:04 PM | Mind-Numbing Serenity I've read much of this novel while up north this weekend in East Tawas, where approximately 4-5 inches of snow has recently fallen. Surrounded by this winterland, I tried to compare my setting to that of Starkfield in the winter. It is quite peaceful up here- calm, cold, blanketed in snow. It seems to be the same in Starkfield, yet the winter appears to be seen in such a negative matter. I believe that part of it is the peacefullness of winter, which if observed for too long, becomes what is known as "the dead of winter" It is this mind-numbing serenity that is probably being allured to by the townsfolk who find problems in those who have taken in too many winters. |
| | 2 | 2/24/2012 9:42 PM | I'm Lovin' the Contrast In the prologue the narrator addresses many contrasts she notices in Starkfield, including the striking figure of a ruined man (Frome) and the severely changing climate in a town of monotony. I may just be a sucker for irony, but I'm already enjoying the strong contrast highlighting the atmosphere of the story. |
| | 4 | 2/24/2012 9:38 PM | Psychological Aspects From the prologue I am assuming that there may be some psychological aspects to the theme of this novel. Two parts of this section that lead me to this assumption was when the narrator addresses Frome's "moral isolation" and "the contrast more poignant between his outer situation and his inner needs". |
| | 4 | 2/24/2012 9:34 PM | The Face of Frome "...and I saw his face as it probably looked when he thought himself alone." Described as looking well above his age and worn down, I found it interesting that Ethan Frome appears to mask his woe when he comes to town, although it does not seem to be that effective. |
| | 0 | 2/24/2012 8:24 PM | Ethan's situation On page 69, Ethan thinks about how he kind of has to hide his happiness with Mattie rather than being able to express it to the whole world. I think that this whole situation is eating him up inside because he is kind of stuck and does not know what to do. He likes Mattie, but he is very limited in what he can do about it because he is married and he has to keep this hidden from everybody. He hates that he has to hide what he feels for Mattie, and this is where I think he is feeling that this whole situation is so wrong and that it should not be. Although he has not actually mentioned this exactly, I do think that it is bothering him a lot and he needs to do something about it or else he is going to become even more miserable and the situation will become even worse. |
| | 1 | 2/24/2012 5:23 PM | Point of View
Although we may take it for granted or overlook it, the novel is in third-person, with a seemingly all-knowing narrator. Easily unnoticed, although I propose very important, is the first line of the novel in the Introduction, which reads,” I had the story, bit by bit, from various people and, as generally happens in such cases, each time it was a different story.” In this respect, it strongly parallels Conrad’s Heart of Darkness, in which Marlow hears about Kurtz from various people and tells the story to the people waiting on the dock. In Wharton’s case, the people waiting at the dock are us, the readers. This technique, as we discussed when reading Heart of Darkness, is to add levels of misperception and confusion, making it harder to see reality. In the case of Ethan Frome, I’m not sure whether Wharton is inviting us to possibly doubt some of the things she says as if they were fact, since the narrator says “each time it was a different story.” Nevertheless, it will be interesting to see how this idea is expanded upon as the novel progresses. As we already know why Conrad implemented this idea as it parallels his theme, could anybody offer insight as to why Wharton would use this technique, specific to this novel?
It is also a bit similar to Invisible Man, in which the beginning of the novel is actually at the end. He says he is 28 during the novel, and in the introduction, it says he is 52, so it’s almost like a flashback. |
| | 10 | 2/20/2012 11:46 AM | A Love Story? When Mr. Chisnell introduced this as a love story, I didn't know what to think. He had a smirk on his face, which of course suggested that he was hardly handing us a simple romance. But now through chapter two, this so-called love story is turning out to be anything but what I expected. Can I just admit that I thought from the forward that it would be pretty dull? But as much as I don't want to admit it, the story is starting to draw me in a little bit.
I digress. What predictions did/do you all have on the "love story" aspect of the novel? I originally thought that the narrator would go back and tell the story of Ethan and Zeena, before Zeena got sick or something. As it's turning out............. *dramatic use of ellipses* not so much. |
| | 4 | 2/20/2012 11:44 AM | What is the meaning of this???? So I'm a loser and I've already finished the book and I kept thinking that I wasn't getting everything that I should out of this book because I didn't have to think while I read. I thought the fact that It was an easy read kind of disappointing almost. Thank you heart of darkness for messing everything up. I would suggest that as you read, be looking for the meaning behind everything! just a heads up! |
| | 3 | 2/19/2012 8:32 PM | Strong Foreshadowing
On example of this is on the top of page 70, with the gravestone. It says, “SACRED TO THE MEMORY OF / ETHAN FROME AND THE ENDURANCE HIS WIFE, / WHO DWELLED TOGETHER IN PEACE / FOR FIFTY YEARS.” From Ethan’s perspective, this is quite frightening. His (not quite ancestor) great great grandfather (just guessing here), also named Ethan, was married to his wife for fifty years. This seems like this would be a nightmare to present day Ethan, who wants to get out of his relationship with Zeena before fifty years of his life is wasted away. His ponders whether this will happen to him and Zeena, and I presume he doesn’t like to think of this. This could provoke him to act on his relationship with Mattie. |
| | 4 | 2/19/2012 4:57 PM | Evoke The tone and style of the prose -
In reading Ethan Frome, I've found I can actually relax and breathe a bit. Just enjoy the novel for a while. I suppose this is a bit of a comparison/contrast to Heart of Darkness...and I don't really quite know where this is going just yet. HoD was very much in-your-face and almost suffocating with its insistence upon slashing through the thick jungle of text; EF's muted imagery and melancholy diction are more of a sterile environment, I suppose.
The physical copy -
Maybe it's the way the physical book exists that's doing it. The text in most of the copies of HoD was all squirmy and crammed up next to each other. Just trying to keep the clauses straight with Conrad was work enough, and then the sentences had to be all up on each other like some house party. In most of the EF editions, it's pretty widely spaced out.
Anyone else getting the same feeling? |
| | 6 | 2/19/2012 4:52 PM | Page 13 "I simply felt that he lived in a depth of moral isolation too remote for casual access, and I had the sense that his loneliness was not merely the result of his personal plight , tragic as I guessed that to be, but had in it, as Harmon Gow had hinted, the profound accumulated cold of many Starkfield winters." This passage stood out to me because what the narrator says doesn't seem exactly correct to me. She seems to state that Ethan's dismay is not merely because of his "personal plight", but had the effects of too many winters spent in Starkfield in it. While the cold harsh weather can change a person, based on the earlier descriptions of Ethan it would seem that his "smash-up" would be a bigger cause of his loneliness. |
| | 8 | 2/19/2012 4:39 PM | The Cold of Starkfield Winters This cold of Starkfield winters are mentioned numerous times - besides the winters being literally cold, I cant help but think that the town is involved in this "coldness" Ethan Frome has endure many Starkfield winters but wont leave because he has to take care of his family and all. The towns people gossip about Ethan but they don't really know him, or at least pretend not to know anything significant. I cant help but think that the "cold winters" are more how people treat Ethan when he does venture into town now and then than the literal weather. |
| | 0 | 2/19/2012 4:31 PM | Ethan Foreshadowing
The physical description of Ethan Frome struck me as off. On page 4 it reads, “The ‘smash-up’ it was – I gathered from the same informant – which, besides drawing the red gash across Ethan Frome’s forehead, has so shortened and warped his right side that is cost him a visible effort to take the few steps from his buggy to the post-office window.” In the Introduction, it says he is 52 years old and the accident occurred almost 24 years ago. Somewhere in the novel’s first few chapters, I think 4 but correct me if I’m wrong, it says he is 28. After a little math, it is obvious to see that the part in the first few chapters is before he had the accident, and it is reasonable to assume the accident scene will be described in the novel somewhere. Somewhere else, I also think in Chapter 4 or so, it alludes to “trouble” due to Ethan falling in love with Mattie, and I infer the gash on his face is connected to the pseudo affair with Ethan. My mind is running endlessly with circumstances of the accident, but I’ll have to wait and see. |
| | 0 | 2/19/2012 4:31 PM | Starkfield
From just the Introduction, Wharton has done a good job of setting a bleak tone for the novel, with the name of the town: Starkfield. She couldn’t have chosen a blander sounding name, and obviously she did that for a reason. The physical description goes along with the name of the city, bland and sparse, and the cover the novel, although not drawn by Wharton, definitely goes along with it. The city is always associated with winter, never fall or spring. The reason Wharton might have done this is to highlight the more colorful or eventful happenings or descriptions. After all, the red and crimson descriptions attached to Mattie is a big contrast to the city itself., Perhaps more will become clear of this as I get through the novel. |
| | 12 | 2/19/2012 4:28 PM | A Sad Beginning Not being too far into the book I can't draw many conclusions, but I can say that this Ethan Frome seems pretty sad. He got smashed up, so he has lameness to his walk, he doesn't have anything to do besides arrive at the post office at the same time every day, and he has a sickly wife who needs medicine. On top of all that, no one in the town really wants to talk to him. Ethan is obviously a loner and perhaps a little off. I'm wondering where this is going to take him |
| | 2 | 2/19/2012 2:44 PM | "...neither poverty nor physical suffering could have put there" On page 10 our narrator contemplates the fact that although she has knowledge of the hardships people of Starksfield have experienced, she still feels unsatisfied that Ethan Frome's hardened expression was a result of that. It makes me horribly curious, if it wasn't physical suffering or poverty, that leaves emotional trauma right ? It gives Ethan an emotional depth even though so far, there has been nothing to prove that he has one. |
| | 3 | 2/19/2012 12:04 AM | Mattie as Snow White "He had been straining for a glimpse of the dark head under the cherry-coloured scarf...the cloud of dark hair about her forehead, and the dark eyes which seemed the only fixed points in a maze of flying lines" (30). I was totally thinking about Snow White after reading this!
Her scarf is the factor to me which symbolizes her as this innocent princess...but I'm skeptical about her being who Ethan describes her as. With this cherry-coloured scarf, she could be acting like this innocent and sweet girl, instead of actually being one. With Zeena criticizing her (wicked queen!), the audience wants to sympathize with Mattie, but I think there's more to her than said. |
| | 4 | 2/18/2012 10:58 PM | Oxymorons abundant! So far I've noticed that from the prologue to chapter two, oxymorons are everywhere! Particularly, oxymorons dealing with heat/passion. The "cold fires" of Orion parallel the chill blaze between Frome and Mattie, as well as exemplifying their feelings as being isolated because of Zenobia(which, for the record, is a bizarre name considering the time this book was written). Never truly able to uncover their budding romance at the decrepit farmhouse, Frome and Mattie's relationship blazes in the cold of their walks to and from town.
I wonder if this odd combination of images isn't Wharton's indication of their doomed romance, because we all know there is no room for happy endings in AP Literature. |
| | 0 | 2/18/2012 9:59 PM | Bloody Irish Page 27 is pretty great for a lot of reasons, but what stood out to me the most is the racism that was present in Frome as he was creeping on his crush. The hostility toward the one that looked "as if he had Irish blood in his veins" starts at the top when Frome is upset that Mattie should have attracted the attention of another male. Then Frome only works himself up by thinking that he sees "impudent ownership" in Mattie's eyes when she look at the Irishman. Finally, and possibly the best part, comes the anecdote of how the Irish grocer's son is employing his father's "smart" business techniques on the Starkfield maidenhood. If you didn't catch this the first time, it's worth looking over again |
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